Omni 20+ Bundle Ac/Dc/Usbc Power Bank - Bundle With Protective Case And Fast Charger | Battery Backu
Omni 20+ Bundle AC/DC/USBC Power Bank - Bundle with Protective Case and Fast Charger | Battery Backup for Laptops: MacBook Pro/iPad Pro/Dell/Surface | Smart Devices:iPhone/Samsung/DJI/Canon/Nikon/DSLR
Brand : Omnicharge
Category : Cell Phones & Accessories,Accessories,Chargers & Power Adapters,Portable Power Banks
Rating : 4.6
Price : US $299
Review Count : 473
SalesRank : 0
Omni 20+ Bundle AC/DC/USBC Power Bank - Bundle with Protective Case and Fast Charger | Battery Backup for Laptops: MacBook Pro/iPad Pro/Dell/Surface | Smart Devices:iPhone/Samsung/DJI/Canon/Nikon/DSLR
- *This is not a once-and-be-done review!! See longitudinal review updates at the bottom!* Also do check out my YouTube channel, TechRN, linked in the comments for the Omnicharge tips and tutorial videos I have made, more to come! Updates to review: April 3rd, 2017; June 5th, 2017.I am an early backer of this product on Indiegogo and the Omni 20 has in every way lived up to if not exceeded my hopes and expectations!!What can this thing charge and power? This is probably one of the foremost questions we all had or have when looking at this device for the first time and as such I will answer it as the first part of my lengthy review. The Omni 20 can charge and/or power: Laptops, smartphones, dumbphones, wireless headphones, wireless headsets, portable speakers, televisions, VCR players, DVD players, Blu-ray players, Roombas, drones, your cat*, your hamster*, tablets, lamps, bathroom appliances requiring less than 100W like straighteners and electric toothbrushes (not likely any hair dryers due to their high wattage requirements), mp3 players, small kitchen appliances, and much much much much much much much much much much much much much much more via it\'s USB ports, AC outlet, DC Output, and Qi Wireless capabilities! In the comments, I will include a YouTube link for my full 20 minute review of the Omni 20 for those of you who actually want to see every feature in action instead of or in addition to a bunch of writing!I am happy to say that this is the coolest piece of technology I have ever owned. This is a pretty bold statement on the part of someone who has owned and tested 12 laptops in the past year and who enjoys a wide array of hobbies entailing technological products, but it is true. I have owned several other power banks including the equal in capacity but $270.00 cheaper Easy Acc Monster 20000mAh power bank and a couple of Anker power banks, but those and every other battery bank on Amazon right now pale in comparison in most aspects to the features and utility that the Omni 20 boasts (except for USB-C capability, only for now, read below in my June 5th entry for more detail on that)!It has two USB ports, one with Qualcomm Quick Charge 3.0 technology and the other being a 5V/3A. It also boasts Qi wireless charging, DC Output via its barrel socket up to 24V\'s (which is more than adequate for most ultrabooks and laptops including all Apple MacBook and Microsoft Surface products). And, for the grand finale: The Omni 20 is the first power bank this small and with this much safety built in to have 120AC/150HVDC A and B Socket Type AC outlet that supports 100W continuous output!!!!This AC wall outlet feature is what made me decide to purchase it. Having a AC wall outlet with you on the go everywhere you visit is way more useful than any of us could have imagined before having such a device available. The first example I will give of its utility is telling you about the laptops I have used it with. I have used this AC outlet to charge my old 2015 Macbook Air 13\", mu current 2015 Macbook Pro 13\", and even charge my 2017 Alienware 17 R4 gaming laptop--- sort of--- Allow me to explain but feel free to skip the next couple of paragraphs for more non-gaming laptop Omni 20 info:Although the Alienware 17 R4 with 1070 graphics card is powered by a 240 watt AC adapter, it does not require 240 watts to be charged or to run continuously. When gaming or doing other high intensity computing activities, this laptop\'s power requirement will shoot above 100W sustained and thus overpower the 100W continuous max limit of the Omni 20. However, when it is fully charged, I have been able to do basic productivity and web browsing activities as it is only trickle charging at around 50W give or take from the Omnicharge to sustain its 100% battery. When the battery is drained and it actually needs to be charged, it can be charged by the Omnicharge if the laptop is asleep or turned off as it will then require under 100 watts to charge. In the video, I show the 90W of continuous power it was using requires its drained battery was being charged, but at the time of filming I had not figured out that you can actually run the laptop with the Omni 20 hooked up for basic every day multitasking when the laptops battery is at 100% already! I have made a video showing all of the ins and outs of charing and powering high-powered laptops on my YouTube channel I mentioned above, so that may be worth a watch if this topic is one of interest for you. To sum up the points above:High-Powered Laptops/Gaming Laptops:1. The Omni 20 can charge an emptied gaming laptop battery while the device is asleep or shutdown.2. The Omni 20 can sustain the gaming laptop if it is already charged to 100% for basic everyday usage when you plug it into the Omnicharge.3. You cannot use the Omni 20 to charge the laptop while gaming or doing high intensity activities, the wattage demand becomes too high for the Omni 20 to sustain and its overpowered protection feature will be activated.As for other AC powered devices, in the first video I made I showed hooking up a 32\" television, 95W Hair Straightener, AC powered USB Hub, and even a power strip with multiple devices attached, all without the Omni 20 even breaking a sweat!The Omni 20 has a fan built in that turns on when the device exceeds a certain temperature and this is something I personally appreciate as I come from a world of high temperature devices with my laptop gaming. The fan can be turned off, however, with the Omnicharge\'s built in Silent Mode that is selectable in the menu. I would not recommend doing this for an extended period of time as the fans are designed to turn on and operate at certain temps for a reason, but this feature will be handy for those of you who may need to utilize this in a quiet setting like a conference or a lecture as the fan does get a bit loud and whiny when the Omni 20 is working hard. The fan isn\'t loud enough to penetrate the sustained noise in a coffeeshop, but in a quiet lecture hall or meeting the noise of the fan may cut through.As this is a power bank, you of course have to charge the device itself. What makes this thing so awesome, is that you can charge it via its included barrel plug AC wall adapter, included barrel plug USB cable, via a laptop charger using the included adapters. As the pictures on Amazon show, you get every kind of adapter in the box you will need (except for USB-C until Omnicharge comes out with a module or adapters). It charges well via solar panels as well and as you probably guessed, I did make a video of this available to view in my YouTube channel! It is pretty epic actually, the idea that you could be off the grid for this for days by charging it via a Solar Panel if the sunlight conditions were ideal.The menu, navigation, and display/notification icons are absolutely stellar. The OLED screen does a fine job of displaying all of the information you need and the nice thing about it is that it allows anyone to pick this up and use it according to the depth and interest they have in its features and info. I can hand this to my technology-distrusting father and he can plug in his phone and get it charging with the simple push of a the power button. For someone like me who really likes to know everything about the device and what it is doing, it comes with an easy to read paper manual and the Omnicharge staff is really great about answering emails and questions in a timely fashion.Essentially, this is a device for the whole family and not just those who are tech savvy! My younger siblings love using it for charging their phones and tablets in the living room while being able to hook up a power strip to power other things like lamps, electric toothbrushes, and TVs just for fun! This Omnicharge has been in my school bag every day as I do my clinical rotations and attend lectures for nursing school. I cannot tell you how many times I and fellow cohorts have had laptops die on us during 4 hour long classes or 12+ hour clinical experiences. This device is going to be the envy of my class and I am guessing several of my cohorts are probably going to end up buying Omni 20\'s or 13\'s for themselves!Take it from a nursing student/ gamer/ video maker/ social media addict/ tech nut, you are going to find some use for this device no matter what your occupation or hobbies might be!If this word soup review has helped you, please do give me a like so others can see this too. Again, the video reviews I have made really lay it all out for this product so do click on the link in the comments if that interests you. I will be making more Omni 20 videos later on as well as people tell me what they want to see and new accessories/changes come out!Keep in mind that at the time of this review (April 1st, 2017), Omnicharge is a BRAND SPANKING NEW gleaming technology company freshly graduated from crowd-funded company status. Give it time, and this beautiful device and its progeny are going to be available the world over in all sorts of configurations, sizes, and I/O setups!!!Thank you so much and good luck with your purchasing decision! I hope you like the pictures too!-TechRN*No cute fuzzy animals were actually tested with the Omni 20 in the making of this review. ;)*Update May 3rd, 2017*Wow!!! This thing attracts positive attention!! Today, in our first Pathophysiology lecture of the term, I pulled out my 2015 MacBook Pro and this Omni 20 quipped with the MagSafe 2 DC Out cable and hooked it up on my desk. Within 5 minutes I had my MacBook Pro charging via the DC out feature, my friend\'s HP convertible laptop via the AC outlet, and my iPhone via a USB port! People were looking on, asking questions, and general praise and interest was the reaction! I was also happy to hand over the Omni 13 and Omni 20 I bought for my friends during the campaign and they are both ecstatic about them! However, my friend with the Omni 13 is now wishing she had gone with the Omni 20 since the Omni 13 can\'t do DC out which means she still has to bring her 2015 MacBook Pro charger with her. She is still happy she doesn\'t have to stay near wall outlets, though :)When I first opened up my 2015 MBP 13\" for my 2 hour lecture on Pathophysiology and Pharmacology, it had 48%. I hooked it up to the Omni 20 while it was also trickle charging my buddies fully charged HP laptop and my iPhone 5s as well. When I left class, the power bank was completely dead, my laptop had 85%, and the iPhone and HP laptop were both still fully charged even during use! That is amazing! The key thing here to understand is that the Omni 20 didn\'t just go from 100% to 0% simply charging the devices in that 2 hour span, it did so while powering AND charging two laptops and an iPhone at the same time! THAT is the impressive thing. I was using Microsoft OneNote, Word, and PowerPoint and was on the web looking at the lecture notes and researching the pathology topics the whole time during that class and my friend on their HP laptop was doing the same. I have exactly ZERO regrets about owning this thing right now. I will be back soon with more updates! Cheers!*Update June 5th, 2017*I have had my Omni 20 for over two months now and it still surprises me with how handy it is at least a couple times of week. Has it changed my life drastically? No. Has it improved the convenience of using a laptop everyday, impacted my choice of study location decisions, and work flow decisions? Absolutely. Having this kind of power on hand at any time is really more wonderful than can be described. Since I last worked on this interview a little over a month ago, the Omni 20 has gotten me through a variety of scenarios including a night-long power outage in which we utilized the Omni 20 for my high-powered USB powered room light for the bathroom (for showering) and for the beside lamp and charging a very starved phone. It worked incredibly for this and I will be posting a short video on my YouTube channel soon about it! I also have had it in my backpack literally 5-6 days out of every week while I have been in school and nursing clincals and it has worked superbly. I have gradually been forgetting what the stress feels like when my computer is dying and there are no wall outlets accessible within reach or available at all in a busy Starbucks on a Saturday morning. Like I said, nursing students (at least in my program, I am sure most others) use our computers absolutely all of the time in and out of class be it note taking, pre-clinical or post-clinical patient charting, and for general homework, study, lecture video viewing, and more. As such, the Omni 20 has been a true enhancement to the most critical piece of hardware in my nursing school supply and has gotten other students and myself out of some tough spots when our computers are dying in the middle of online tests or lectures.Being totally candid, a feature I am looking forward to, be it a model refresh or an add-on module, is a port for USB-C in and out charging. USB-C is swiftly taking over the market due to its versatility and ability to provide power delivery (PD) to devices requiring less than 100W at peak and as such this Omni 20 would be nearly perfect if it offered such a feature. During their Indiegogo campaign back in October or November, I remember that Omnicharge developers were on the fence about whether they were going to do a barrel plug or USB-C for power delivery. They went with the barrel plug for many good reasons at the time, which included the fact that the barrel plug charger for the Omni 20 can charge the device itself much quicker than a basic USB-C wall plug can and the fact that USB-C still wasn\'t quite that widespread. Alas, now we are seeing ultrabooks, phones, and other sub-100W powered devices quickly trending towards widespread utilization of USB-C and as such it will be important for the future of Omnicharge and other power bank companies to adopt builds that can provide USB PD for higher powered devices. Upon speaking with Omnicharge customer service at some point a while ago, I remember them mentioning that they were thinking about or already working on a USB-C in and out attachment module for the Omni 20. This will be a joy for 2016 and newer Mac owners and others whose technology is USB-C centric. Keep an eye out for my updated review if or when the USB-C module comes out! This will be exciting because it will mean that you will be able to leave your USB-C chargers and power bricks at home for the device and just take your Omni 20 and a high quality USB-C cable with it!-TechRN
- Omnicharge 2.0Features:20400mah lithium battery - capable of charging an average cell phone between 6-10 times!AC charging plug - can power a range of laptops2 USB portsDC In/Out power portIntelligent power management including thermal protection and voltage under- and over-protection, as well as short-circuit protectionScreen display including battery temperature, charging times, and moreWireless chargingPass through charging featureProsA battery that can actually power a laptopPass through chargingGood information available on screenFirst decent battery power pack that has an AC power supply!Wireless chargingConsExternal AC adapter needed; this increases what you need to carryDC Input/Output port just doesn\'t add up (more on this later).Screen so tiny its unreadable without glasses (at least for old people like me).Two buttons that are somewhat confusing (I have to look at the manual for the graphic explanation) and not sure why its needed. One turns on/off USB charging (why?) the other turns on/off AC power out (again, why?)The Omnicharge 2.0 is an interesting and very neat product that is more than halfway to being awesome. It falls short due to some odd design issues and confusing concepts, as well as a marketing gamble that I\'m not sure will pay off.Let\'s start with the most confusing: The DC IN/OUT barrel port.This has a pretty cool idea hidden in it: using the power OUT mode, you can power a variety of products and select a huge range of different output voltages (in 1/10v increments). So you can power a few different laptops (with the barrel adapters and cables supplied) and theoretically, a host of other products. For example; it might power my Nolan bluetooth motorcycle helmet which has a barrel pin input, or my bluetooth portable speaker, also a barrel pin input. It would be great when travelling to dispense with those AC adapters and just use the Omnicharge instead.Problem is, you can\'t. The supplied pins don\'t fit my products, and unless you can find a cable that fits (5.5mm/2.1mm pin on the Omnicharge side, and whatever you need on the output side) you are out of luck. Which means you are probably out of luck; I couldn\'t find any cable that would fit either of my test products.So an output port that promises to power a virtually infinite set of your personal products - but won\'t. Great idea, not so great implementation. If they provided a larger set of pin adapters, or at least pointed you to someone who does (Radio shack makes a power system with multiple output pins, but I have no idea if it would work)... that would help. My suggestion to Omnicharge: team up with a company to provide access to a much larger range of output cables and pins, and a website that helps identify which sizes you need.The second problem with the DC IN/OUT port is even bigger: It\'s a one way street. If you use it to power your laptop or other device, you cannot charge the Omnicharge itself... it gets its power from the DC IN port, which means you can\'t use the DC OUT port at the same time, because they are one and the same port.So, maybe thats fine if you are in an airport, you pull out your DC cable to charge your Surface Pro laptop, and it will power it for several hours before the Omnicharge needs to be charged. But what about working at a conference, long hours and little time off? Do you feel comfortable leaving your laptop charger at home and hoping the Omnicharge can supply you with enough juice all weekend long, without needing to plug the Omnicharge in to AC power? I\'m not sure I do. So that means you need to bring your laptop adapter with you - one more brick to haul around.If the Omnicharge simply had two ports, one in and one out, that would go some ways to solving the problem... but I think they were trying to be TOO clever here...So the long and short of it is that the DC IN/OUT port is its own worst enemy, and fails to live up to its promise. The adjustable voltage DC OUT part fails because in real life it will only charge a pretty small range of products that fit the supplied pins. And the DC IN Port simply conflicts with the OUT, leaving you to make hard choices.Solution: Two DC ports, one a charging port for the Omnicharge, one an output port for a range of devices (and please, offer a wider range of pins!)My second beef with the Omnicharge is that if they had made it just a bit bigger and squeezed an AC power supply into the Omnicharge, it would be a MUCH better product. Instead, you have to carry around an AC brick to power your Omnicharge brick, and you probably won\'t feel safe enough to leave you laptop AC brick at home, (for reasons mentioned earlier), so end result... more bricks in your suitcase - and for a product that is 100% aimed at the portable/travel market, that\'s a problem.Yes, you CAN charge your Omnicharge using a power supply with a USB port (they supply a cable to do just that); but charging via USB is much longer than using their supplied AC power supply, so it seems to me unlikely that people will opt to do that. Plus, you STILL have to have an AC power supply of some kind with a USB port, so you\'re really just trading in one brick for a smaller AC brick... Now, my Surface Pro AC brick has a USB port, so I could use that, but keep in mind that it will now take much longer to charge the Omnicharge... again, I don\'t see myself doing that.Next beef: the screen. It\'s tiny (understandably) but I need 2.75 reader glasses to read what it says, and that\'s just not going to work for me.They should either increase the screen size (maybe by moving it to a different side of the Omnicharger and making it much longer) thus allowing for larger, more readable graphics) or ... well no, thats what they need to do. Make it three times wider so they can make it more readable. Move it to another side of the brick.Fourth beef: whats with the two buttons? Why would you want to turn off the USB (then try to remember you\'ve turned it off and need to turn it back on again, later when you need USB power)... or turn off the AC, either? I see no need for them, except they double as menuing up/down buttons. Make the screen bigger and longer, make it touch sensitive, get rid of the buttons.Fifth and final beef: only 2 USB ports. Move the USB ports to the opposite side of the brick and give us 6 or 8 or 10 ports. I don\'t care if they are just part of a single USB hub, of course they split the power and will reduce charge times... but lets face it, people like us tend to buy these kinds of products because we have a LOT of USB devices that need charging, not just two; and mostly we will be charging them at night, so they will have all night to charge... In my case, here\'s a quick list of things I charge:2 cell phones (I find myself often charging my girlfriends phone at airports etc)4 (count em, 4) microUSB-charged small video light batteries for my two underwater video lights I use when diving)3 mini-USB-charged batteries for my gopro (as each battery barely lasts an hour, and I might often need to do 3 or 4 hours of video before getting somewhere to recharge)laptop computermicro-usb-charged bluetooth mousea bluetooth portable speaker - that\'s enough for now, but I could add more - headphones, my bluetooth bicycle helmet, AAA/AA battery chargers... the list is always getting longer..I carry two small round travel USB hubs and a ton of cables so I can hook up 8 devices at once, but why not incorporate more USB ports into the Omnicharge and solve this problem?OK, that\'s all the negatives.Now lets look at the awesomeness side of the equation:AC CHARGING! Yes, you can charge your laptop with this device. You can sit down in any airport loung and fire up your laptop and between your laptop battery and the Omnicharge, work away without having to join the long queue of people walking around the airport lounge in long circles scanning the walls and chairs for power sockets. That\'s pretty darn cool. If you want you can use the DC Out port, or just plug in your laptop AC adapter into the Omnicharge AC plug and you\'re in business. And while you\'re at it, you can charge your phone(s) as well! And hey, you can offer to help a few passers-by to charge their devices, too, if you\'re really feeling generous.That alone, is a great leap forward in battery powered charger design.WIRELESS CHARGING. Yes, it can do it, and that\'s awesome. You can lay your Galaxy S8 on top of the Omnicharge, and it will begin charging it automatically. VERY COOL... if a serious gamble for Omnicharge, because four years ago, wireless charging seemed to be the way to go, with Nokia and Google and other phone manufacturers building wireless charging into their phones... but today, it looks to me like wireless charging is on the way out. Apart from the Samsung Galaxy A8, most major phone manufacturers seem to be giving up on wireless charging. Google, which installed it in their Nexus range of phones, has given up on it and it is not available on the new Nexus or the Pixel phones. Nokia, which had it in a number of their phones, is no longer offering any phone with wireless charging that I know of; the ex-Nokia division that is now Microsoft phones offer wireless charging with both their phones, but Windows phones are such a tiny fraction of the market, if you don\'t work at Redmond you probably don\'t own one. Google stated that the high speed charging available with USB-C was the reason they were abandoning wireless charging, as it simply wasn\'t worth the extra space needed for the wireless coil (which results in a thicker phone). Wireless charging, once the darling of the tech press, seems to be disappearing rapidly. Today, apart from the Samsung Galaxy line, and the LG 6, I can\'t find any wireless phones actually in the market in 2017 with built in wireless charging. So Omnicharge: great idea, not sure it\'s going to sell in the current marketplace - if there aren\'t phones to be wirelessly charged, it\'s not needed... so the jury is still out on this one. A cool idea, and I personally wish (having owned two wireless charging phones in the past) that wireless would make a comeback, but my latest phone doesn\'t have wireless charging! So maybe Omnicharge should have gambled on USB-C instead. But then, I would have complained, as all my devices are non-USB-C. Guys, you just can\'t win.FORM FACTOR: I really like the form factor, it\'s a nice compromise and a good shape and size for packing in with a laptop.SCREEN: There is a wealth of good information on the screen, which considering that all my previous chargers never had screens, is a big step forward. Now they just need to make it more readable, i.e. 3x as long.HIGH POWER USB PORTS One is 3A, the other conforms to the Qualcomm Quick Charge specification, so both are going to give you all the USB power you need to quickly charge your devices (some of the samller USB travel chargers you see for sale everywhere barely provide half that power). As an example, my Motorola g4 phone came supplied with a Turbopower charger, which does a MUCH better job of charging than any other charger I have. When connected, the phone says \"TurboPower connected\" and charges at a distinctly higher rate of speed. But when travelling in the past, I\'ve opted to leave the Motorola charger behind and just charge my phone off my Surface Pro adapter\'s USB port. Works fine, but much slower. But now, when plugged into the Qualcomm QC USB port, that TurboPower feature is activated... so my phone is charging faster than ever before, when travelling. NICE!DC Input/Output Port: I\'m listing this on the PROS side of the equation as well as the negative, for the following reason: If you use the DC output port to charge your laptop, it is a more efficient use of the Omnicharge battery, so you will get more juice, for longer. At least, that\'s my assumption, based on the claims on the Omnicharge site. (It may also be quieter, for technical reasons). So theres an advantage to this port, even though there are disadvantages as well (you can\'t charge the Omnicharge 2.0 when using the DC power out port).POWER PROTECTION: Don\'t forget, this isn\'t just a battery. It claims intelligent power management including protection from irregular power supply coming INTO the Omnicharge (so a \"surge protector\" of sorts) as well as protection of devices plugged into the Omnicharge, from both over- and under- power supplies. It also has thermal protection (shuts off when the battery gets too hot) and short-circuit protection. So you have built in power protection for your laptop and any other device you plug into the Omnicharge.PASS THROUGH CHARGING: It will continue charging devices via USB or the AC socket, even when the Omnicharge is recharging its own battery. Most power supplies I\'ve used in the past were all either/or situations; when charging, they could not charge other devices. So again, NICE!UNIVERSAL CHARGING: The Omnicharge claims it can be charged by a variety of devices, including solar panels, your car (with a 12v-to-USB adapter I assume, which is not supplied), any power supply with a USB port, and laptop adapters. Speaking personally, it can\'t take power from my Surface Pro adapter, except through the USB port, but I assume that there are a number of laptop chargers that would fit the DC-IN port of the Omnicharge. Keep in mind that the charging will probably be much slower when using any charger except the supplied Omnicharge adapter; it certainly was much slower using my Surface Pro adapter. Solar panels would be even slower to charge. But if you were in the outback and had a large solar panel, it might be very useful!MY DREAM:The Omnicharge 3.0, with 2 AC sockets, a built in AC power supply (with a short cable that wraps around the Omnicharge, maybe?) 8 USB ports, and a bigger screen. To get those, I would be willing to trade the wireless charging capability and the DC Out port, completely.FINAL QUESTION: CAN YOU REALLY EFFECTIVELY CHARGE THE OMNICHARGE 2.0 VIA USB?I plugged my Omnicharge 2.0 into the USB port of my Surface Pro 4 laptop adapter. The intelligent management system told me it was charging the Omnicharge at a rate of 6.4w and estimated the time to charge my Omnicharge battery from 96% to 100% was 55 minutes. That seems pretty slow, at 4 percent charge per hour, it would take approximately 25 hours to fully charge from zero.I disconnected and plugged the Omnicharge into its own AC power supply; it showed a charge of 22.0w and a 5 minute charge time.That\'s a BIG difference. Clearly, not worth dispensing with the Omnicharge power supply and relying solely on the Surface power supply; I could easily end up with the battery being depleted, if I was travelling and working extensively.I would recommend using the Omnicharge\'s own 19v power supply. But in the car, or in a pinch, anything with a USB outlet can be used.
- I use this battery charger for work purposes. It charges my laptop, ipad, iphone and rechargeable flashlight. I wish it had more USB-C connectors, but it does the job. The charge is not super-fast, but I can plug it in while charging devices. I can also take it on airplanes with my carry-on backpack, but I find it most useful while in t
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